Phil Wickham
Phil Wickham is currently on the road for the Hymn of Heaven tour. Before his show at Austin Ridge Bible Church, we had the privilege of sitting down with him to chat about his new songs, the purpose behind releasing an acoustic version of Hymn of Heaven, what encourages him about today’s worship writers, and more.
So for this leg of the tour, you’re joined by Josh Baldwin and Kim Walker-Smith. We know Josh can be a character - have there been any funny tour moments?
We’re all characters too so he fits right in. I think the most entertaining thing is that our manager got us on Oculus (the VR thing). A lot of us had never done it before so everybody doing the “walk the plank” over the buildings, the giant spiders attack, etc. was pretty hilarious watching everyone do that.
And y’all are doing this on this tour bus? That’s a lot of stimuli.
We did do it on the tour bus. It’s crazy when you’re doing the flying thing and the bus is moving - you kind of start feeling like you’re there. It’s wild.
That’s awesome. Tell us about the songs you’re leading on this tour and which one in particular has been resonating the most?
A big part of this tour was to not have openers or closers - break the mold of the normal tour, I guess. So I made a list of some of my favorite worship leaders (Josh, Cody, Kim, Naomi, etc.) and just asked my team if we could have them all out, just at different times. So we’ve been having a different special guest every month. It hasn’t been easy but I definitely think it’s been worth it because it’s been special and fresh every month. I just wanted the people out that lead me in worship when I’m out on a run, or putting my kids to bed, and to have them out and not just do their thing but all do something together. So we’re all bringing songs that have seemed to have connected outside of our church buildings. Everyone’s bringing songs that just light the room up.
And then it’s been really special to sing the songs that seem to have connected most with people from my album like “Battle Belongs,” “House of the Lord,” “Hymn of Heaven,” “1,000 Names, etc.” I can’t stop thinking onstage, every night, I keep getting this memory that feels like a vision it’s so real, I can even smell the youth group room, just this stinky, sweaty room. (Why are they always sweaty?) and just leading worship as a 13 year old kid - just so happy to be there and didn’t need to be anywhere else. And just seeing the goodness and grace of God over my life - His protection, His kindness, and His faithfulness - and I’m looking out over these rooms that have all been full (which I’m just like: “What? Why am I in Minneapolis and there’s 4,000 people here”) but they show up with so much desperation to sing and so much faith filling up the rooms.
And I’m just more aware than ever of God’s grace in my life and faithfulness as I get to write these songs and bring these prayers that were written for my home church to sing, and make them other people’s too. It’s been amazing.
You mentioned leading worship since you were 13 years old. Being from a pastor’s family, was this calling just ingrained in you?
Not at all, actually. We moved from Orange County to San Diego, my Dad was at Calvary Costa Mesa, and just felt a call through a pastor. My dad gave me a guitar, didn’t tell me how to lead worship with it or anything just gave it to me, but the way I learned how to play guitar was through all these chord charts of worship songs that were around. And that’s how I fell in love with God was through music and through just worshiping in my own room.
But even then I wasn’t like: “I can’t wait to get onstage.” I was always the reluctant guy - I didn’t want to do a record, I didn’t think anyone would want an album of mine, but then a family wealthier than ours gave me the resources to make one because they saw the hand of God on my life I guess. So God definitely had to kick me through some doors every once in awhile. I just never wanted to do anything I wasn’t supposed to do, which I think is a lesson in itself which is: being able to hear the voice of the lord instead of the voice of my own fear or insecurities.
I never felt like this is what I have to do. I still can’t believe it - that’s why I brought it up - like, I can’t believe it. What an amazing honor that God has me in this position right now and I just want to be a good steward of it until He wants me to do something else.
That’s cool that you mentioned that you fell in love with Jesus learning to play music and now you have that songs “Reason I Sing” and it’s about how you sing now because you love Jesus. It’s kind of a full circle moment. Tell us about this song and the acoustic version you just released.
Yes, that song is going to be part of a whole, reimagined record of Hymn of Heaven. I wrote “Reason I Sing” to be the opener of a worship set to ask: “What are we really here for?” I love singing about what Jesus did for us on the Cross and how He conquered the grave and how every fear, in light of that, now pales in comparison, and everything that was beautiful becomes more beautiful because it’s all wrapped up in who He is. Everything is wrapped in Him.
Through the lens of Him, a clarity is brought to all life.
The more I learn about Jesus and how the culmination of the scriptures leads to Him, and how the Church is this growing thriving, messed up, awesome thing that flows from Him - it all comes back to Jesus. If there’s anything I want to say at the top of a worship set it’s this. We did it in a very low key way - that’s the whole record.
My family and I go to the same spot on this cliff, it's about 2 miles away from our house, and it’s the first view of the Pacific Ocean that we have, so whenever we’re heading to the beach we come around this bend and it’s up on this cliff. You see the train tracks, Cardiff Beach is right there. And my family parks in the dirt in this beat up Sprinter Van and open the sliding door and we usually take our dinner there and just sit on blankets and watch the sunset. We were out there, and I like to play low-key worship music when we do this, you know, try to have a chuchy moment with my kids in the middle of a crazy day like: “Isn’t God awesome??” And they’re like “Ok Dad….” I think I was playing Prayerdoxology from Elevation, and that album is just beautiful versions of songs that are already beautiful, and I thought: “I wanna do this.”
I wanna make a sunset record - a coffee in the morning record, a putting your kids to bed record, with these songs I already have.
I could show it to you later, but I have this picture of all my kids looking at the sunset and I just kept looking at that when making this acoustic record - I’d have a question in the studio like, “let’s put a little bass on this” and I’d come back to that photo and go: “you know what? Vocal and guitar. That’s it.” I wanted to make a soundtrack for that moment.
I love that. Since you mentioned Elevation - you’ve been doing this since you were 13 so you’ve really seen Christian music grow and evolve. You collaborate with Brandon Lake, Sean Curran and more that are a part of this really influential generation of worship leaders right now. What about this generation of writers and artists encourages you?
It’s hard to say, because this is the only generation I’ve been actively involved with on a very personal level so it’s hard to compare.
But I will say that hanging out with Brandon Lake and Steven Furtick recently, it was just the most beautiful time of fellowship and authenticity and a heart for the Church. The world is crazy, and I think we’re seeing it in a new way, and we see it immediately now. We can’t hide from it because someone’s going to take a video of it and it’s going to show up on your feed.
And it’s just amazing to have these friends: everywhere from Passion to Bethel, and more – all through it, they just practice what they preach. We’re not perfect, but man, when I spend a day with Sean Curran and Kristian Stanfill or Steven Furtick, the Ligertwoods (we just wrote that song “A Thousand Hallelujahs”), every time I leave just so blessed to have be with people I’m going to hang out with forever. Brothers and sisters, you know?
It’s just real. Especially in today’s world, there’s nothing really to hide behind and there’s really no reason to do it unless it’s real. There’s so many other things we could do, so many other banners we could fly. The ones that fly the banner of Jesus high is just really inspiring to see.
Maybe I don’t give myself enough credit, but when I get a call to hang out with these guys who’s music I love so much, I just feel honored to be there. I’m like God: Give me something I can contribute. Because I just want to sit here and let them sing to me!
Our community is worship leaders, and we’d just love to hear some encouragement from you for them to close this out!
One thing I say to worship leaders is: you are faithfully serving your body and your people and pastoring them into a new place of worship and a higher, deeper place of intimacy with your church. Thank you so much for what you do.
I’ve kind of got a unique position since I’m not on staff at a church. I get a fresh crowd of people every time. Which in some ways is difficult: being away from family, and a specific type of responsibility and stewardship, but watching my dad as a worship pastor still being faithful to his calling to lead people to Jesus through music, it’s not easy. You have to cultivate a healthy relationship with Jesus on a daily basis, you have to maintain healthy relationships with the people you work with, with the crowd that your ministering to, and you have to do it all with such grace and humility.
Everyone around you has an opinion or a complaint. I just want to say, thank you to all you worship leaders for serving. It does not go unseen by the Lord and the Holy Spirit and we desperately need you. I don’t lead worship at my home church - I’m not on staff. The guys that are are hugely important to my spiritual growth. Just for me to sit next to my wife and sing and worship - I’m so thankful for that.
I just read today, so it’s on my heart, when the Apostles were up in front of all the leaders in Acts, they were these blue collar guys, but they spoke with such power and authority that it was undeniable, even to those that didn’t call Jesus “Messiah,” that they had been with Jesus. And that would be my one encouragement. That you would cultivate your relationship with Jesus so well that it would be undeniable to all that you serve and lead, that they would say the same thing. And that they would want to follow suit as they worship.
Be with Jesus. Make sure you’re being not just doing. Because doing can burn out quick. Make time to be with Jesus.
Thanks for your time, Phil!
Phil Wickham | Hymn of Heaven
Lead songs from Hymn of Heaven with your congregation.